Info-Atari16 Digest Mon, 27 Jan 92 Volume 92 : Issue 49 Today's Topics: Anti-flamewar proposal. Arcgsh 4.1 BBS Express FTP? Darn brevity Deskjet 500 JRD's port of GNU Emacs MINT ??? Multifinder for Atari-ST ? New Supra Modem... PC(AT)_SPEED Sozobug 1.33i (2 msgs) Supra Interface PROBLEM: SOLVED The game of Go and Xtra Ram Unzooing big files on one drive VORTEX ATonce 386SX for MSTE's Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU. Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored. If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please contact the redistributor, not us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 27 Jan 92 14:21:45 GMT From: aurs01!whitcomb@mcnc.org (Jonathan Whitcomb) Subject: Anti-flamewar proposal. To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1992Jan25.215455.14648@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> wmagro@roma.physics.uiuc.edu (William Magro) writes: > >If you hate posts that respond to flamers, read on. This one is >different. True. Good idea, Bill. >"Why my Atari 1040STf Sucks," by Bill Magro >I) GEM/Desktop has a lot of problems > B) I have to bring a window to the front before I can launch a program > from it. > C) I can't arrange my desktop in any efficient way. Agreed. Since switching to Codehead's HotWire/MaxiFile environment I've been able to circumvent these problems. > D) There is no effective and consistent multitasking environment. Agreed again. > E) Do we really need to reboot to change resolutions? I guess I don't really care about this one. A combination of a bootable, reset-proof ramdisk and a resolution switching utility makes this almost painless (15 seconds, tops). >II) Hardware bitches > A) Why is TOS in ROM? I like TOS in ROM. It's fast and I don't have to see the desktop for more than 2 seconds before HotWire takes over (I can't say enough about this shell). > B) Our graphics modes suck. > C) We need a bus (or buss if you are a total computer nerd)! > D) The power supply/keyboard/mouse all suck. > E) Non standard connectors. Yep, yep, yep, and yep. The new machines address mostof these issues. My only real gripe here is the power supply. I just replaced mine with a Best supply. The keyboard is a little mushy, but better on the Megas than the 1040s. There are enough decent third party mice that everyone can find one that they like. Add to this list the 4 meg RAM limit. I don't want to have to move up to a TT just to get more RAM... I don't really need the extra processor speed and graphics modes. Another complaint is all the RF noise the ST generates. I use my ST primarily as a MIDI tool, and my guitar pickups just scream when I get near my ST (even when I turn off the monitor). Okey, I know they want to keep costs down, but this has backfired several times when they couldn't get the new machines past the FCC. WHAT I LIKE ABOUT MY MEGA ST. 1. The SM124 monitor. Cheap, sturdy and great to work with. It's hard to bitch about these even if they do give out after a few years... at $25 a year for a great looking monitor it's still a bargain. 2. Built-in MIDI ports. Great idea, and it created an instant market and MIDI software base. I expect to be using my ST for many more years for the MIDI capability alone, and Atari has the forsight of keeping the interface on all the new models. I don't miss the MIDI thru port... most ST MIDI software handles the problem just fine. I would still recommend an ST first to anyone interested in computer based MIDI. 3. The loyal users. A machine this good wouldn't die a graceful death despite all of Atari's...er...INTERESTING marketing strategies. I can always get quick and useful answers to my problems on USENET, GEnie and Delphi, and the public domain software base is tremendous. About half of my most used software is public domain. I also consider folks like Codehead and Double Click to be loyal users...they certainly aren't in it for the money! Publications like ST Informer and Current Notes keep me up to date with the new software and hardware, and I can't believe anyone's getting rich off of them! 4. Personality. It's fun being a non-conformist. Okey, sure I'm disappointed when new software doesn't get ported to the ST, but on the other hand think of the money I save! 8~B 5. Dave Small. I don't own any of his products, but I like reading his magazine articles and I just feel better knowing he's around. 6. The 680X0 family. I haven't done much assembly language programming on my ST, but it's nice to know that when I do I won't have to delve into an Intel processor! 7. Bob. 8. And finally...Atari. For all our bitching, there are still some enthusiastic folks busting their butts to keep the ST family alive. No company is going to make everybody happy all the time, but Atari could have easily scrapped the ST line entirely and focused on the PC clones. It's just good to know that they are developing new machines in the line. ********************************************************************** Jonathan Whitcomb UUCP: Alcatel Network Systems Delphi: JBWHIT Raleigh, NC GEnie: J.WHITCOMB3 ------------------------------ Date: 27 Jan 92 13:42:08 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!usc!wupost!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!fauern!unido !fbi-news!tommy!klute@arizona.edu (Rainer Klute) Subject: Arcgsh 4.1 To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1992Jan27.103439.25008@actrix.gen.nz>, Roger.Sheppard@actrix.gen.nz (Roger Sheppard) writes: |> Is this the thing with characters being left on the screen.?? Yes, it is. |> One thing that did not look right was one of the drop down menus has |> what looks like Quick Keys, but the letters are way to far over to the right |> and hard to read, you could move them over to the left a bit and give them a |> right margin, this would make them far easer to read. This one is new to me. All menus look fine now, at least on a monochrome screen. Do you use a color monitor? Perhaps the symptom you describe has something to do with the one that is corrected in Arcgsh 4.1. Please try out the new version and let me know! -- Dipl.-Inform. Rainer Klute klute@irb.informatik.uni-dortmund.de Univ. Dortmund, IRB klute@unido.bitnet Postfach 500500 |)|/ Tel.: +49 231 755-4663 D-4600 Dortmund 50 |\|\ Fax : +49 231 755-2386 ------------------------------ Date: 27 Jan 92 17:08:06 GMT From: noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnu s.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!ba014@arizona.ed u (Matthew C. Brinkhoff) Subject: BBS Express FTP? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Does anyone out there run a BBS Express board with some good Express Utilities, Online Games, Etc.? Or is there an anonymous FTP site that would have some? -- o-------------------------------------------------------------------------o | Orwell was an optimist! | ba014@cleveland.freenet.edu | E Pluribus Unix | o-------------------------------------------------------------------------o ------------------------------ Date: 27 Jan 92 17:48:47 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc. edu!zazen!doug.cae.wisc.edu!carter@arizona.edu (Carter Gregory) Subject: Darn brevity To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu >No, the NeXT has a bad design. The OS steals too many clock cycles for it's >own work (task switching, display postscript, my god man It's UNIX!). We're >talking system performance here, not processor performance. obviously an 040 >outperforms an 030 at the same clock speed, but because of the NeXT's high >overhead it's performance is in the dregs. > >.--------------------------------------------------------------------------. >| UUCP: {amdahl!tcnet, crash}!orbit!pnet51!chucks | "I know he's come back | >| ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!chucks@nosc.mil | from the dead, but do | >| INET: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org | you really think he's | >|-------------------------------------------------| moved back in?" | >| Amiga programmer at large, employment options | Lou Diamond Philips in | >| welcome, inquire within. | "The First Power". | >`--------------------------------------------------------------------------' You have to be joking guy, don't even try to compare AMIGA DOS with ANY version of UNIX, especially the Mach version on the NeXT. Its not even in the same league. AMIGA DOS is incredibly primitive compared to Mach. Let me See the AMIGA 3000-25 run the same OS on its architecture, as the Next 030, and I bet you wouldn't be such a proud owner of your 3000. -Greg ------------------------------ Date: 27 Jan 92 11:10:46 GMT From: timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!marc@uunet.uu.net (Marc Bouron) Subject: Deskjet 500 To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Hi People, I am on the verge of buying myself a new printer -- an HP Deskjet 500. It looks (to me) like a sound step-up from my Epson LX-80. I just need a smidgen of encouragement from fellow ST users before I make the final commitment. I want to use it with TeX, GhostScript, and GEM Metafiles. Does anyone have some damn good reasons why I am going to come to grief? Or am I on to a good thing? Hopefully the latter... Thanks `a priori' for any words of encouragement, experiences and anecdotes. Cheers, [M][a][r][c] ===== Cray Research (UK) Ltd. ===== INTERNET: marc@hemlock.cray.com "If all the girls in Essex were laid JANET: M.Bouron@uk.co.cray end-to-end, no-one would be in the UUCP: ...!uknet!crayuk!M.Bouron slightest bit surprised..." VOICE: +44 344 485971 x2208 ------------------------------ Date: 27 Jan 92 11:16:55 GMT From: mcsun!uknet!warwick!nott-cs!mips!eczjr@uunet.uu.net (John Richards) Subject: JRD's port of GNU Emacs To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <4991061@MVB.SAIC.COM> steveg@cseic.saic.com (Stephen Harold Goldstein) writes: I origianlly tried to post this but OUR site bounced it so I'm forced to postto the newsgroup. In article <4991061@MVB.SAIC.COM> you write: >I'm using John Dunning's port of GNU Emacs and like it alot except for >one annoying problem. Can anyone help me: > >Get the file loader to stop stripping out Ctl-M's (cr's) from my ST >text files? It's a real pain to have to replace all LF's with CR/LF >pairs everytime I go to save, and GNU Emacs on my Unix box has no >trouble preserving 'hard' CR's, so why should the ST version? Don't know about this one as it's not a problem that I have but it must be possible - most things are with emacs. > >Similarly, how would I go about creating a mode (or defining the key) >so pressing enter caused CR and LF to be inserted? Modify the keymap either for a special "ME" mode or for the global keymap. This is described in the manual in the chapter on customisation. This may be possible by a fix something like the fix for C-s being hold on vtxxx terminals. This is detailed in the PROBLEMS doc but it basically consists of replacing C-s with C-\ and setq'ing the keyboard-translate-table. This is done in the emacsini.el (.emacs - see below). The following line in my .emacs defines C-x! to be the function this-line-to-top-of screen (a function I wrote myself). (define-key global-map "\C-x!" 'this-line-to-top-of-screen) I may as well include the keyboard translate table stuff for C-s as well ;; Suggested fix for Isearch at startup problem ;; Make a keyboard-translate-table (let ((the-table (make-string 128 0))) ;; Default is to translate each character into itself (let ((i 0)) (while (< i 128) (aset the-table i i) (setq i (1+ i)))) ;; swap C-s with C-\ (aset the-table ?\C-\\ ?\C-s) (aset the-table ?\C-s ?\C-\\) ;; swap C-q with C-~ (aset the-table ?\C-~ ?\C-q) (aset the-table ?\C-q ?\C-~) (setq keyboard-translate-table the-table) ) > >(Bonus Question): What is the name of the .el file (and where does it >live) that I can put startup commands into? On my Unix box here it's >".emacs" but that obviously won't work on the ST. This one I do know ! It's called emacsini.el and it lives in your root directory (where emacs is started from). I found this out more by luck than anything else - I think it's in one of the README's that come with it. Hope all this helps to solve the problem - If you manage it I'd be interested in the solution. Bye, John ******************************************************************************** John Richards | email : eczjr@mips.nott.ac.uk Dept. of Chemical Engineering | : eczjr@unicorn.nott.ac.uk Nottingham University | tel : (0602) 484848 x2956 Nottingham, NG7 2RD | fax : (0602) 790239 ******************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: 27 Jan 92 11:00:34 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!fauern!unido!new s.uni-bielefeld.de!techfak.uni-bielefeld.de!itschere@arizona.edu (Torsten Scherer) Subject: MINT ??? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I`ve heard a lot abount MINT yet, perhaps the most important is that is a multitasting system and you can get the source codes. There is just one question left: Where can I get it and how much does it cost? Or is it some kinda public domain or shareware??? TeSche -- this perversion of alphanumerical characters was created by torsten scherer, universitaet bielefeld, germany just experimenting with the .signatur file a bit... ------------------------------ Date: 27 Jan 92 18:49:58 GMT From: mcsun!news.funet.fi!ajk.tele.fi!funic!gideon!lahtinen@uunet.uu.net (Kimmo Lahtinen) Subject: Multifinder for Atari-ST ? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu boyd@sigma.cs.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) writes: >There is an application called Revolver which can give you multiple ST's >that you can select with hot-keys. For example, you can split a 4 meg ST >into 4 1040ST's (functionally at least), and switch back and forth between >them. In your case, you would probably (given 4 megs) use 3.5 megs for LISP >and 512k for your editor. Revolver is quite nice program, but there is some problems. First of all it is a switcher so the program in the background does not run. Sometimes it is good as it does not use cpu either, so program in the foreground runs as quickly as possible. The other problem is that revolver does not work with a graphics card. It was a nice idea from Atari that you can change the position of display memory, but with a high resolution card it does not work. -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Kimmo Lahtinen E-Mail : lahtinen@gideon.fmi.fi Finnish Meteorological Institute Phone : +358 0 758 1322 Possessed by a Spirit G3 Fax : +358 0 758 1396 ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jan 92 11:17:15 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!news.dell.com!milano!cactus.org!covert@ari zona.edu (Richard Covert) Subject: New Supra Modem... To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1992Jan23.102316.400@actrix.gen.nz> Roger.Sheppard@actrix.gen.nz (Roger Sheppard) writes: >In article <1992Jan22.194723.23878@milton.u.washington.edu> tymbrimi@milton.u.washington.edu (Ben Gilbert) writes: >> Hi, I recently saw an ad in a friend's computer magazine for a new >> Supra modem, something like the Supra 2400 PLUS, it says it has >> asynchronous 300,1200,2400 bps (that's the usual I suppose), 4800 bps >> with MNP 5, and 9600 bps with v32.bis or v42.bis (can't remember which). >> So can I actually pay the CHEAP $130 bucks for this modem and dial up >> my school net at 9600 baud? Sounds like a good deal to me, I know that >> my school dial-in IS this new v32(42).bis thing, someone tell me, 9600 >> baud would be awesome for only $130 mail order... >> >> >> Ben > >No the prices are listed at $299 or $399, the lower price is for the V32 >model, and the other for the V32bis... >*** Roger W. Sheppard * Roger.Sheppard@bbs.actrix.gen.nz *** Actually the last ST Report had the supra ad. and Supra is offering the new modems at a special price to BBS operators. A really good deal. Did you also notice that the new modems are also send and receive faxc modems? And that Supra has Fax sw only for the IBM PC and the macs? so, both STers and amiga users can use the modem only as data modems, not as FAX modems. seems kinda strange that Supra isn't releasing ST FAX sw to use with their fax modem!! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . -- Richard E. Covert covert@cactus.org CACTUS ..!cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!covert ------------------------------ Date: 27 Jan 92 08:34:29 GMT From: mcsun!sun4nl!nikhefk!alex@uunet.uu.net (Alex Poelman) Subject: PC(AT)_SPEED To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Hoi Atari users, I have seen a demonstration of PC Ditto 1 (the software version, is there a hardware version?) and it was slow!!. Can anyone tell me how 'fast' PC_speed or AT_speed are compared to PC Ditto? <| /\ |\ / \ | \ alex@nikhefk.nikhef.nl / \| \ / | \ Alex Poelman NIKHEF-K (CSG) / | \ / | \ Po.box 4395, 1009 AJ Amsterdam, / | \ /__________| \ The Netherlands ______________|________\ / | / %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% -- ------------------------------ Date: 27 Jan 92 10:53:23 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!wupost!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lapis.labmed.umn.e du!davidli@arizona.edu Subject: Sozobug 1.33i To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <8127@tamsun.tamu.edu>, n160ao@tamuts.tamu.edu (Mark Lehmann) writes: > I was not able to get Sozobon 1.33i "Heat and Serve" to install on my > 1040ST with TOS 1.0 and 2.5MG. When I get part way through the > installation the "-" minus signs turn into a series of random looking > characters then I get two bombs. After the two bombs, a error message > from the Heat and Serve installtion program says that the "CC.PRG" program > cannot be found. I had a similar problem. Of course, I had multiple AUTO programs and DC Desktop running, along with QuickST and a few other things... My solution was to go to a bare-bones DeskTop (ie, the only AUTO programs running were FOLDRxxx.PRG and the TOS 1.4 'fix' programs). Apparently, the LHarc program used during the installation process does a few flips and giggles if you're running non-compatible TSRs. -- David Paschall-Zimbel davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu "The most important fact about Spaceship Earth: An instruction book didn't come with it." -- R. Buckminster Fuller ------------------------------ Date: 27 Jan 92 16:44:40 GMT From: agate!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!cs.umn.edu!thelake!steve@ames.arpa (Steve Yelvington) Subject: Sozobug 1.33i To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu [In article <8127@tamsun.tamu.edu>, n160ao@tamuts.tamu.edu (Mark Lehmann) writes ... ] > I was not able to get Sozobon 1.33i "Heat and Serve" to install on my > 1040ST with TOS 1.0 and 2.5MG. When I get part way through the > installation the "-" minus signs turn into a series of random looking > characters then I get two bombs. After the two bombs, a error message > from the Heat and Serve installtion program says that the "CC.PRG" program > cannot be found. I don't know what's causing that problem. The .PDF files are self-extracting LZH archives. The "-" sign is a progress indicator that is supposed to turn into "*" as the archive is melted. All INSTALL.PRG does is load the .PDF files, change to the appropriate drive, create the directories, and execute the .PDF program. I'll run some tests on this as soon as I get a power supply for my TOS 1.0 machine, but I note that Ben Gilbert installed it on his (on floppies) without trouble, so I have to wonder if there might be something in your machine that's stepping on memory -- a bad chip, a wild desk accessory, etc. Meanwhile, you can install everything manually by creating the directories and then running LHARC (any recent Questor version) to unpack the .PDF files. You then should run INSTALL again, skipping the steps that unpack the .PDF files, so that it can install GEMENV.PRG and update your DESKTOP.INF file for you. -- Steve Yelvington, Marine on St. Croix, Minnesota Note: Mail to the .mn.org domain has been failing for about a month. If your mail bounces, try cs.umn.edu!thelake!steve. ------------------------------ Date: 27 Jan 92 17:06:11 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-sta te.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!ba014@arizona.edu (Matthew C. Brinkhoff) Subject: Supra Interface PROBLEM: SOLVED To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Thanks for the help, my problem has been solved. -- o-------------------------------------------------------------------------o | Orwell was an optimist! | ba014@cleveland.freenet.edu | E Pluribus Unix | o-------------------------------------------------------------------------o ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1992 05:28:32 PST From: John_Singleton.SBD-E@rx.xerox.com Subject: The game of Go and Xtra Ram To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Does anyone know of a P.D. or Shareware implementation of the game of Go? Don't mind if it runs in mono or colour. And, does anyone know anything about the Xtra ram board I asked about a couple of weeks ago? I didn't get an answer, does this mean that no-one knows anything about it.? John Singleton. Rank Xerox England. ------------------------------ Date: 27 Jan 92 15:12:09 GMT From: mcsun!corton!laas!ralph@uunet.uu.net (Ralph P. Sobek) Subject: Unzooing big files on one drive To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Now to make ZOO more accesible to ST users. >>>>> On 16 Jan 92 22:14:42 GMT, steve@thelake.mn.org (Steve Yelvington) said: Steve> If you have two SF314 drives, put ZOO.TTP and the FILE.ZOO file on A:, Steve> switch to B:, and run A:ZOO x A:FILE.ZOO. This is fairly simple and Steve> straightforward if you're using a command-line shell. It's also Steve> fairly simple with any of the several GEM-based shells that work with Steve> ZOO. | Steve> It's a little harder with the standard GEM Desktop. Not really, I believe that the following must be some undocumented feature since I have never seen it in *any* ST Owners Manual. Even the Double Click people musn't know about this since they sometimes overload the right mouse button. The following works in good ol' TOS 1.0 and 1.2 (disclaimer: at least the versions that *I* had!). To do Steve's recommendation above from the DESKTOP, just make B: be the top-most GEM window. Make sure that ZOO.TTP is visible in window A:. All set then, double click on ZOO.TTP while simultaneously holding the right mouse button *down*. It's that easy! Steve> Note that to run ZOO from the Desktop, you MUST have TOS 1.4 or newer. Steve> Previous versions will not pass the .TTP arguments correctly. True for the `extended' commands of ZOO. But the `novice' commands will always work. -- Ralph P. Sobek Disclaimer: The above ruminations are my own. ralph@laas.fr Addresses are ordered by importance. ralph@laas.uucp, or ...!uunet!laas!ralph If all else fails, try: sobek@eclair.Berkeley.EDU Phone: (+33-)61-33-62-66 FAX-1: (+33-)61-33-64-55 FAX-2: (+33-)61-55-35-77 =============================================================================== Got a Mega 4 ST. Wish it was a Mega STe? :-| Do I *really* want a TT/Next? ;%# ------------------------------ Date: 27 Jan 92 10:54:17 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!fauern!unido!new s.uni-bielefeld.de!techfak.uni-bielefeld.de!itschere@arizona.edu (Torsten Scherer) Subject: VORTEX ATonce 386SX for MSTE's To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <..>, stigvi@Lise.Unit.NO (Stig Vidar Hovland) writes: |> In article <...>, itschere@techfak.uni-bielefeld.de (me) writes: |> > |> > Some facts : |> > |> > - 32 bit CPU 80C386SX-16MHz |> |> This must be wrong. Isn't the 80386SX a 16 bit processor as the same way the 68000 is. |> |> Stig Vidar Hovland - stigvi@lise.unit.no That's not perfectly right. The 386SX is a 32bit processor, but unlike the "normal" 386 is has only got a 16bit wide external bus. Internally it's got 32bit registers, just the same way as the 68000. If there's any software which really uses these 32bit is another question... TeSche -- this perversion of alphanumerical characters was created by torsten scherer, universitaet bielefeld, germany just experimenting with the .signatur file a bit... ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ******************************